The ONE THING Leaders never delegate.
Peter Drucker said, “It is INFORMATION that holds companies together, not ownership or command.” A leaders’ ability to communicate that information effectively, capturing the emotion and creating connection with her employees will be the leader that wins at the talent war.
In this episode, Kirsten grills story strategist Matt Zaun on how leaders can harness the power of storytelling!
Not campfire stories, something we can ALL DO in order to connect with audiences, inspire teams, and drive business results. It's called: Strategic Storytelling. And Matt is the expert!
Matt shares his origin story - from a humbling public speaking 'flub' to developing powerful communication techniques from his political background and experience training top talent to execute on impactful communication.
Matt reveals how intentional storytelling separates exceptional leaders from the rest.
If you want to stand out - then stand in line for this episode!
Matt Zaun BIO:
Matt Zaun is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt started his career as a political speechwriter, crafting messages for dozens of politicians before translating his expertise to the business world. Now, through his workshops, speaking engagements, and podcast, Matt teaches executives and sales professionals how to cut through the noise and create messages that resonate long after they're delivered.
As the founder of Stories With Traction and a sought-after Vistage speaker, Matt has worked with hundreds of companies to transform their stories into powerful tools for connection and growth. His methodology helps leaders create "storybanks" that harness the psychology of inspiration to motivate teams and drive results. A student of communication in all its forms, Matt's passion for storytelling extends to his personal quest to visit every Presidential library in America, drawing leadership lessons from history's great communicators.
For more info on Matt:
The Following is an AI Generated transcript (may contain errors).
@11:21 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Welcome to the executive hustle podcast. Our guest today is Matt Zahn. Matt is an award-winning speaker, a story strategist.
He travels the country helping leaders and companies tell their stories. Better communicate with both employees and customers. He is a Vistage speaker, father of three, and he loves mountains and presidents.
Welcome, Matt.
@11:47 - Matt Zaun
Some of them.
@11:48 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Some of them. Okay, good qualifier.
@11:51 - Matt Zaun
We could get out of that later. Thank you for having me, Kirsten. I have a tremendous matter of respect for you, what you do, so it is an honor of privilege to be here.
@11:59 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Oh, well, I'm So glad you're here and feel the exact same way and excited to see where this conversation takes us.
So with that, I often or almost always start with, you know, Matt, did the seven year old want to be a story strategist?
Did seven year old Matt know what a story strategist was?
@12:24 - Matt Zaun
The couple of year ago, Matt didn't know you wanted to be a story strategist. When I was seven, I wanted to be some version of an athlete.
@12:32 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Nice.
@12:34 - Matt Zaun
And I say some version because that was my experience as a child. So my upbringing was, it was immersed in tremendous work ethic.
@12:46 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
My father was a double Iron Man triathlete.
@12:49 - Matt Zaun
So for those of your listeners, you Google Iron Man double the numbers, My father from a very early age.
@13:00 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
I remember waking up early, him leave, and he would run, that would be his running time.
@13:07 - Matt Zaun
And then he worked at the Bethlehem Seal Company, had a very gut-wrenching, hard job, labor job. Then he came home and he would get on the stationary bike for hours.
And he was a very handy person. He built a lot of different things. So he built a box, this huge wooden box that went around the stationary bike.
And on that box was a table and a chair. And I would actually sit at the table and I'd play checkers with him.
@13:34 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
And I would eat food at times.
@13:36 - Matt Zaun
And that was his training when it came to biking. And then on Saturday, that was his swimming time. So at first, he would get a bungee cord and he would attach it to a house.
And it would be like an above-ground pole that he would swim him. And then because he was incredibly crafty and he could like build tons of different things, he actually went to a scrap yard and he got as much scrap steel.
heel as he possibly could. And he built a five by 10 swim spa that he put in our basement.
@14:06 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
And he had these like incredibly high powered jets.
@14:09 - Matt Zaun
And they were so powerful that he could literally swim. He didn't need as well, he I believe he did have a little bit of a bungee cord as well, but they were so high powered that he would have to really intensely work to swim.
And then his swim time was on that Saturday.
@14:23 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
So and my mother had a tremendous work ethic. was a business woman.
@14:26 - Matt Zaun
So she was she was the strategy of my family where she taught me how to think strategically.
@14:32 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
So I'm in this household that just got wrenching hard work.
@14:35 - Matt Zaun
So at seven, I didn't necessarily know what athlete I wanted to be or what type. But I knew I needed to do something as a brain to athletics.
@14:43 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah. Well, and just the hard work that was going to be required for whatever you choose. It seems like that you really had a good start in what that looks like in models that that you had at home.
Wow. So I've heard you speak several times and there is a story about a presentation you had that didn't know well and that moment being a pivotal moment for you.
@15:09 - Matt Zaun
Could you share just a couple minutes on that? Sure. So what I do today is I show leaders how to persuade through storytelling and I do this through many different avenues.
One of them being a workshop, I do it through coaching, consulting and today I've spoken in 30 US states.
My goal is to speak in all 51 day and I'm giving you that compare and contrast version because what I do today is I do speak professionally but I was a terrible communicator several years ago.
Absolutely horrific. I didn't know how to connect with people. I didn't know how to communicate at all so it's it's hysterical to me when I think about what I do today.
I really love sitting behind a computer.
@15:56 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
love studying trends. I love data.
@16:00 - Matt Zaun
has been very strategic in my approach based on my mother and my upbringing in that regard. And I ended up getting into the political world through a series of events, and I started working for different politicians from an analytical perspective.
And the idea was I was really good when it pertained to research, collecting a lot of different data to produce results that the individuals that I was working for wanted, because the goal was could they actually put up bills that could pass and become law.
And I was asked to give a talk to a group of people knowing that the group was going to be hostile, knowing that they were going to be more of like a toxic type crowd.
And my boss at the time who kind of threw me to the wolves said, Hey, I need you to go, I need you to present to this group of people.
I can't go. I have another obligation. So I need you to go and speak on my behalf. But I want to call.
Pushing you this audience absolutely despises what you're going to talk about and they hate me So more than likely death by association.
They're going to hate you, too now today I Feel that I've but I have gained so many different skill sets that that terrain would be a lot easier to navigate Not that I would willingly go into an environment like that Obviously there have to be an intent to do that But years ago, that was not the case.
This was the most detrimental thing to me I couldn't sleep I tossed and turned I thought out of every scenario that could go wrong in my head and Often, I think we we inflate nerves when it comes to different things.
Yes, this circumstance was not inflated I mean it was an absolute disaster. It was horrible. I To this day I can almost relive it as if it's happening right now It was like a traumatizing experience for me
@18:00 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
And it was also a page in my life that needed to happen.
@18:05 - Matt Zaun
I needed to turn that page because I remember after the event, I rushed out to my car, I slammed the door and I yelled at the top of my lungs.
I'm looking in the rear view mirror so I can see myself and I'm yelling at myself.
@18:20 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
That'll never happen again.
@18:22 - Matt Zaun
I don't know what it's going to take, but I'm going to learn how to share a message. And that was my big aha moment.
I'm an obsessive person, I like obsessing over things and diving as deep as I can. And that moment, that sting, that pain prompted this obsession where I said, okay, I'm going to figure out how some of the best leaders of our time have connected with their audiences.
@18:45 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
What have they done?
@18:46 - Matt Zaun
And then that took me down this path of intensive study and I basically created my own curriculum. I was tearing through books, I was reading and learning, and then I was applying my
myself. And then I was going and I was teaching different politicians on how to speak, how to communicate, how to utilize messaging strategy.
I got involved in political speech writing, debate preparation, and then that became the launching pad for the business that I have today.
@19:17 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Wow. That is the ultimate comeback story. I mean, you didn't let a huge, you know, traumatic event challenge, you know, fail here.
You know, my word, not yours, but stand in your way and you turned it into an opportunity and a very successful business that's impacting leaders in such a critical area.
So the one of the most important things leaders have to do today is communicate and connect with people. And so from this research that you did this obsession into and the deep dive into all of these orders.
What are some of those, you know, top two, three, four effective strategies or mindsets that leaders have that are the most effective communicators?
@20:12 - Matt Zaun
What can we help our audience with? Yeah, so the first thing that I would challenge everyone listening to this episode to do is I want you to evaluate your delegation, right?
Often we talk about delegating, and I think that that is really important. That is something that personally I've struggled with a great deal because I like things done a certain way to delegate anything to a team member has been incredibly challenging to me.
But often CEOs try to delegate their communication and they try to delegate their storage strategy and they try to delegate so much of that.
And one of the dangers of AI, and I view AI as one of the biggest double-edged swords that society will ever have to deal with, I think it's going to have tremendous
dispositives and tremendous detrimental consequences. But one of the things I see is leaders, especially C-suite will say, okay, now with AI, we could just delegate all of this.
And that's such a dangerous mindset because some of the most impactful leaders, they utilize stories, often personal stories with business themes intertwined to connect with people to prompt that engagement, prompt that inspiration, prompt that persuasion.
So the first step is evaluate how much of that are you delegating? And this is from every aspect of our business.
There's different buckets as it pertains to communication.
@21:40 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
So one of the buckets is internal communication. This is your company culture.
@21:45 - Matt Zaun
So from an ROI perspective, are you getting your people fired up to work around the mission, around the values that you have as an organization?
So talk about return on investment. Imagine getting double the output from your team. That is a huge ROI. That comes.
down to company culture and internal communication, then you have the sales bucket, then you have marketing, then you have company culture.
@22:09 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
I'm sorry, not we are touch company culture.
@22:11 - Matt Zaun
So you have sales marketing, you have the onboarding, and then you have interviews. Okay, so bringing job candidate on every single experience that we go through, we could be asking ourselves, where's the story in this that I can use for one of these buckets?
Almost as if I like to connect it to almost like a stand up comedian, if you will. So if you think of some of the best stand up comedians, they're constantly taking it through this lens of based on this experience, how can I produce content material for my next show?
As leaders, we need to constantly asking ourselves, where is the story in this that I can use for for my next staff meeting to beef up our sales process for marketing fuel for interviews.
So from a hiring manager perspective, what stories are they sharing with the job candidates to spark that interest and also to win the talent war so that people want to work for organizations.
And also onboarding, I think a lot of a lot of onboarding meetings across corporate America are abhorrent.
@23:25 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
They're terrible.
@23:26 - Matt Zaun
There's not there's there about the rules of our relationship, not about our relationship. Exactly. So there's all these buckets.
Yeah. So what the advantages to this too, is when you're going through a circumstance, doesn't matter what kind of circumstance it could be an incredibly happy experience of incredibly joyful, excited experience, or it could be a very angering experience, a very frustrating circumstance.
That is fuel for our stories for all.
@24:00 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Are I called a story bank filling these story banks so it it empowers us to connect with people on a whole other level What i'm Picking up on besides everything is a skill that i'm wondering is a prerequisite to what you're saying Which is a recognition skill These leaders can't go through the day with their head face down Right thinking about what's next on the list where am i going what am i doing right?
They have to be aware To recognize what is the story that i just witnessed that i can use in the next staff meeting 100 and there's a business intent there's a strategical intent They also need to sit down and create those buckets for themselves So another bucket would be make it work.
@24:57 - Matt Zaun
Yeah, make it work What are the values that you say you have as an organizer? Values from a word perspective are only so memorable, you have to back it with a story.
Forget the values of the words themselves. What are the company core stories that exemplify the values you say you have?
So as a leader, we need to be taking in our experience and asking ourselves, okay, how can I use this for fuel to grow the organization?
Steve Jobs, I often bring this up because again, leaders want to delegate everything as it pertains to storytelling. Do you think Apple would be the company that it is today?
Steve Jobs didn't immerse himself with story strategy from a marketing perspective. Apple would not be one of the most profitable businesses in human history.
And most leaders that are listening to this episode would love to be in a position like Steve Jobs to connect with an audience the way this individual did.
He took ownership of that and took ownership of the fact that, hey, here to Different things happening.
@26:01 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
How can I use this for fuel to create these stores to connect the audiences that we have? He did the work.
He didn't just want it, but he also did the work.
@26:10 - Matt Zaun
So you watch somebody so amazing as him.
@26:13 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
What are two to three things that he mastered that made his messages really stick with people?
@26:19 - Matt Zaun
I think a big thing. I call it stage dynamics.
@26:22 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Okay.
@26:23 - Matt Zaun
It's really important. Some people call it the stage presence.
@26:27 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
I like that the stage dynamic aspect.
@26:29 - Matt Zaun
So I think it's really important. Studying how does someone work the stage?
@26:34 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
That is that's absolutely key.
@26:36 - Matt Zaun
So when you when you think of someone like Steve Jobs, you know, lot of us that that Have seen these presentations can almost picture it in our mind, you know, he has a black turtleneck He comes out in jeans and the way he is moving his body The way is interacting on that stage with the audience.
Very few CEOs do that One of the things that Steve Jobs did one of the many things things is he would look for things outside of the world that he was in.
So if you study Steve Jobs, like one of the things he was obsessed with was writing styles. He was obsessed with writing styles and he was obsessed with the creative aspect of writing styles and he was obsessed with art.
And he took this idea and how could we utilize this from a storytelling perspective. Now I'm not saying people listening to this need to do that, but I would challenge them to look outside your world.
So like one of the worlds that I looked outside of, it was outside of politics, it was outside of business was the music world.
What can we learn from musicians, from artists, as they connect with their audiences? And you can put anyone in this category.
I'm thinking three people in particular. So if you think of Freddie Mercury, you think of Beyonce and you think of Taylor Swift, for one that's hyper-relative.
@27:56 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
How can you not think of Taylor Swift?
@27:59 - Matt Zaun
mean, I think of Taylor Swift.
@28:00 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Taylor Swift, your teenagers, however, yes, teenagers, yes, but I would also mention whether you love her or hate her as a relevant, strictly from a stage dynamic perspective, leaders, C-suite can learn a lot from Taylor Swift from the fact that she knows what she's doing when she's on stage, and those movements are not random in any way, shape or form.
@28:29 - Matt Zaun
That is worked on extensively. When she moves her head this way and pauses, something's going to happen with the audience over here.
They're going to, they're going to roar with applause and then, and she's going to walk this way and she's going to go to this stage and she's going to stand at this specific moment and at this specific line, this is going to be sung.
And I bring that up because often as it pertains to leadership from a communication perspective. So, if we think of a staff meeting.
There's so much random stuff going on where's the strategy with it? I see so many leaders They view a staff meeting like an agenda item.
Let's check the boxes.
@29:10 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
All right.
@29:10 - Matt Zaun
talked about this Let's go on we talked about this where's the strategy and the intentionality behind it And I think a lot of that goes to getting out of your own world Studying what works for individuals that are on a stage and connect with individuals What can we do to adopt some of those same strategies ourselves?
@29:30 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
I love the mindset of Taking what you believe or think or have been acting as random staff meetings and hallway interactions Right, you can put a lot of things.
We can lump a lot of things into that category How does a leader shift their mindset from these are just part of my normal day and I'm getting through them to?
These are my day These instances are the places where I show up and how am I showing and using them strategic?
That's next level, I think, in terms of where leaders can get to and their impact.
@30:08 - Matt Zaun
Yeah, you have to read between the lines. Another example is for individuals that they have one-on-ones with their senior leaders, often what's blocked up in the calendar, that's where the strategy comes in.
So let's say they block up an hour and they're like, all right, in this hour, we're going to talk about one, two, have all these points to discuss with that person.
Where's the intentionality before that meeting takes place and after? Because before, are you setting your team member in a mindset to open themselves up enough to discuss and be vulnerable with you to what you need to get to?
So where's the intentionality with, all right, maybe there's some questions you can ask them that now I'm not saying be calculated and come across as this mechanical individual.
That's not what I'm saying, but there needs to be some type of intentionality that you're asking. certain questions, to set them at ease, to try to get them more into an emotional mindset.
@31:07 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
So then you can have them open up to you about certain things, everything is so random in business as a potential communication, there's not enough strategy with it.
Yeah, I think we see too much fly by the night, you know, types of In terms of how we might have these conversations and how we might start with one level of conversation, get a person to a place along a path of a decision, and then move to the next level, move to the next level.
And she challenged me on this, she's like, that just feels manipulative. I was like, that's a really interesting point in thinking about, you know, thinking ahead about where we want to go, and laying out the steps in our communication to get there.
Pulation or strategy? How do you respond to that?
@32:03 - Matt Zaun
That's an awesome, I think it's a multi-layered question. But first I'll say, human psychology is really important as it pertains to connecting with people.
think from a strategic perspective, I feel that I would be doing someone a disservice to not be strategic in my intent.
Prime example, before we hopped on this recording, this episode together, I was talking with a prospect. I had in my mind, and on paper, a very strategic outline of exactly what I wanted to accomplish, and everything that was shared was very intentional.
That person walked away, not feeling manipulated, but feeling uplifted, feeling inspired. And if I was not strategic in my approach, that might not have happened because my goal was to offer as much value as possible.
Because I'm I'm thinking in my head, if I could be on this call for 30 minutes with this individual and offer so much value for free, their thought is going to be, wow, I wonder what kind of value would happen if I actually invented financially.
So I think from a strategic perspective, you're wasting people's time, if it's just random, and if it's willy-nilly, and there's no strategy with that.
Now with that set, I will make a really important point. I learned the hard way as I pertain to this.
I feel that we need to be more curious than calculated. I think that it's really important. One of the things, especially in the political environment, and when I was doing media campaigns, there's a lot of study as it pertains to questions.
when I was getting different candidates and elected officials ready for debate press hall, town hall, press conference preparation, one of the things that you're going through tons of questions, you're trying to figure out, like, okay, the reporter's going to ask this.
here's a response that you would have and it was very, very calculated because like you are you're trying to frame certain things you're trying to make sure that you you say a certain sound bite here and then in the business world this was detrimental to me because at one point I was too calculated in what I wanted from the conversation and we need to give the conversation space to breathe and we need to be incredibly curious because we might start over here point A and we're not getting the point B we're getting the point C or D or Z right because that's where the individual's taking us and we need to be mindful and wise enough to recognize okay where's the direction that it's going and then how can I offer value based on where it's going not where I am trying to force it to go yeah yeah I'm often speaking about the difference between leading from your expertise and leading from your curiosity and that your expertise I think would be
@35:00 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Very similar to what you're saying in terms of I'm calculated. These are the things I want to say. These are my points I want to get across.
This is what I know well. This is where I'm gonna stand, right? My intention versus that curiosity of there.
We're both in this room. What does this room look like? Where are the doors? Where are the windows? What do you have to contribute to what this room looks like?
And where are we both gonna go, right? that curiosity brings the other invites the other and we get more a generative a type of experience from that.
I'm if there were... So you added, I think, really great concept in terms of here's something from the political world that didn't translate.
Are there other patterns of things that did translate from the political world and speaking and storytelling to the business world that maybe are those universals that can be helpful to our audience?
@35:56 - Matt Zaun
Yeah, great question. So there's a lot that we do in the political messaging world. that is not done in business that I think is a major detriment to people in the business world that we can definitely learn from.
@36:06 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
One example would be debate prep.
@36:09 - Matt Zaun
So when I am preparing someone to go into debate, I need to change their environment to get them ready for what's ahead.
So if you look at any athletic event, there's training that goes into that. And the goal of a great coach would be, can I take you through such a brutal training that when we get to the athletic field or when we get to the court, it's not as big of a deal because we just went through all of this training.
So for anyone listening that, you know, you're a football fan and you see a play that looks like it's so seamless.
How many hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times was that play practiced in order to make it look like it was so easy?
Well, when it comes to debate a prep, I want to put someone in a position to be incredibly irritable.
one of the ways to do that is you look at the amount of food that they would normally have on a normal basis, how about we cut back on that food?
How do we cut the amount of calories you're consuming? Because you're going to be irritable. How about if we make sure that there's major disruptions in your sleep patterns so that you are groggy and you're already in a state of intense frustration?
Then I'm going to figure out what kind of questions are going to emotionally, from not a good emotion, but a negative emotion.
How am I going to get this person incredibly angry? And I might come up with certain questions to really get them to the point of being incredibly flustered.
As we go through that, we're working on strategies on how to combat that from a healthy perspective. I think leaders need to do this in business.
I think leaders need to understand that if you have a meeting where you are speaking to your entire team, maybe
your entire company, there are going to be things that going to happen that could potentially knock you off your game, get you flustered.
Maybe you get a question from one of your team members in front of everyone, and you're little bit embarrassed because of that.
What kind of training are you doing in order to get your mind prepared to do that? in politics, we do it all the stink all the stink and talk.
Excuse me. In business, we don't. We don't. So a few strategies that I think are incredibly practical.
@38:31 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
One, there needs to be a major perspective shift as it pertains to leaders.
@38:35 - Matt Zaun
I want you, everyone listening, I want you before you go into an environment that you know is going to be incredibly challenging.
I want you to view that as a gift. Every politician I've ever coached, I mentioned to them, if you get yelled at during this town hall, if you have a paid protester, stand up with a sign that's a negative sign, take it literally as a gift.
Because what is happening right now? is though it can be really challenging and though it's definitely not exactly what you might want in that moment, the entire room is going to be able to witness you as the incredible leader that you are based on how you handle that experience.
We're going to look incredible if you handle this with poise and with wisdom. So there needs to be a perspective shift.
So every leader listening to this episode, if you're going into a hostile shareholder meeting, you're going into potential challenging board meeting, take that experience before you even set foot in that door as a gift.
You're receiving a gift from that audience because they are giving you an opportunity to show how incredible the leader you are.
@39:42 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
That's first and foremost.
@39:43 - Matt Zaun
Second, and this goes back to something that you alluded to about, you had mentioned windows in the room and the door that all it's grounded in you being present.
And one of the things I always recommend is to feel your own body in the that moment. One of the ways you could do this is if you're seated, feel your legs as they're touching the chair, feel your feet on the floor.
If you're standing and politics work on this extensively, when you're standing, like let's say you're up in front of an audience in front of a town hall, there's a thousand people in the room and you're getting shouted at, feel your feet, the weight that is one of one of the challenging things that happens is when there's a really frustrating circumstance happen, we often like to mentally check out.
I think social media has really prompted this mindset in our mind where we're like in another world, where you might be thinking yourself, I can't wait until this is over, I can't wait until this person stops talking, what's next, what's next.
If we're grounded and we're in that present moment, we're pulling ourselves.
@41:00 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
into that space into reality and we're telling ourselves we're here right now we're not thinking about what we're having for dinner later tonight we're not thinking about this massive project that's due tomorrow we're here in the moment we're connecting with this individual and so much more becomes possible when you do that yeah for sure absolutely yeah that's that's very grounded as you said that i unfolded my legs i felt my feet on the ground i was like it's very fair to me it's a good exercise i've done it i've coached on it and i think it's just natural when you start to hear those things uh that you do that so yeah you you know Peter Drucker i was reading uh one of his books recently and in preparation of thinking about today this quote came out organizations are held together by information not by ownership or command and that really made me think about the stories and the communication aspect of our conversation and what you do
what you help leaders do, and he was certainly ahead of his time in so many things. The other one I'll bring up, because I was going to ask you this AI question, and you preempted me quite expertly, by bringing up, what is the impact of AI on storytelling?
And even decades ago, Peter said, the more we automate information handling, the more we will have to create opportunities for effective communication.
And that's exactly what you said, and that's exactly what leaders need to do, because we're seeing so much more automation.
I can even see you and I both used LinkedIn a good bit, but you can see where people, their comments to your post are AI generated, right?
Because it's just a reverberation of what you have up there. There's no authenticity. And I'm just like, you know, why don't I put out the effort if a bot is just going to, you know, There's a lot, there's a lot here.
for our leaders and our listeners. I hope that everyone listening has taken just a lot away today. I'll highlight three things at least here as we come to our close and I have one final question that I just I'm desperate to ask you.
One of the first things that resonated for me Matt was we become what we need and that's exactly what your story has shown at least me we become what we need and that that's a familiar narrative I think that's out there.
Problems and challenges we need to turn them into opportunities with a perspective shift so leaders need to see that challenging meeting that challenging one-to-one that you know that question that might be embarrassing as a gift so switching that perspective so that they can see that as a gift so that they can rise to the occasion with their communication however without these other
There are two things that you mention, they won't rise. They need to prepare. John Maxwell says, you can't deliver what you don't prepare.
So if we don't prepare, we won't be able to deliver and rise to that occasion. And I think you've highlighted really strongly that what happens in politics doesn't happen for our business leaders.
We need to be practicing this. We need to be standing in the bathroom, standing in front of the mirror, practicing, having people throw us the questions and getting feedback around it.
So those are my biggest takeaways, although I scribbled so many notes during this conversation. It was super enlightening. I do have to ask you, who is your favorite president?
It's my favorite president.
@44:43 - Matt Zaun
One of my goals is to get every presidential museum in the country. I've been to 15 so far. have two more on the books or two more upcoming this year.
Every single one teaches me something different.
@44:58 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Mm-hmm.
@44:59 - Matt Zaun
I don't have a favorite. And I mean that sincerely, because I feel that I can learn something specific from each and every one of them.
I would say that I really like going to ones that are a lot, a lot older, a lot, a lot, you know, 100 years ago on what they were doing.
I think a big piece to that is a lot of what we're talking about is still relevant today that was relevant 100 years ago and will be relevant for another 100 years.
And it's stories that are connecting with individuals. So I can't give you a specific one, but I would say that there is something that we could learn from every single leader.
And I do want to end with this. As you mentioned, AI, again, we will need to be better storytellers because of AI, because right now people's attention spans are shrinking due to all of this information.
We need to be more engaging. And to your point about comments on LinkedIn automated, if you're sharing a personal story.
with a business theme or twined, you are head and shoulders above everyone else. Okay, so stories absolutely matter.
@46:06 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah, and I think that connection is valuable and leaders, you know, if nothing else need to be connecting with people, if they want to get ahead in this world of disconnection and distraction.
So this is a great, great episode with so much meat packed into it for our listeners. Thank you so much.
If they want to find you follow up here more, how might they do that?
@46:31 - Matt Zaun
Sure, two ways you can connect with me on LinkedIn, as well as go to my website, which is storieswithtraction.com.
@46:40 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Absolutely fabulous. And we'll have all of that in the show notes.
@46:43 - Matt Zaun
Perfect. Thank you. Appreciate your time today.
@46:45 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Thank you, Matt. This was awesome.
