Building Great Leadership with Nick Brien.
In this episode of The Executive Hustle Podcast, Nick Brien and Kirsten discuss some of the core building blocks of good leadership, including communication, culture, and focus on family. Nick’s approach to successfully leadership has been honed over many years and his story of both success and failure offer lessons learned for leaders at any stage. One area we dive deep into is how company values just aren’t enough! Listen to find out what you may be missing.
NICK BRIEN’S BIO: Nick is the Executive Vice President at Dawood Engineering. Dawood is multi-state and multi-national civil engineering firm founded right here in Central Pennsylvania. Nick has served in a variety of roles within Dawood across his 19 years, most recently being named its Executive Vice President in February of 2023. As part of the executive team, Nick is responsible not only for strategic leadership of the company, but as engineer of record, he oversees the many of Dawood’s most important projects. Nick is active in the community, serving on the Transportation Committee of the Marcellus Shale Coalition and each year you can find him mentoring the next generation of engineers at the Future City Competition.
For more info on Nick:
KIRSTEN YURICH BIO:
Kirsten is a licensed behavior analyst, speaker, author, and retired CEO who partners with business leaders to help them achieve more of what matters most to them. Kirsten’s clients are high performing CEOs, founders, and executives looking to “level up” in life and business.
Kirsten share’s her expertise in leadership, performance management, and learning with executives through coaching or consulting, peer groups, and speaking.
For more info, check out Kirsten Yurich HERE.
The following is an AI generated transcript of the podcast which may contain errors!
Welcome, Nick. Nick, I am so excited to have you today.
Nick is the Executive Vice President of Dawood Engineering, a firm here in the local Harrisburg area. I am so glad to have you on the podcast today.
I've been looking forward to speaking with you specifically around some things about influence and how leaders can use their influence in their position without necessarily relying on say your title or your actual position, because that's something that I think resonates with leaders and aspiring leaders.
so I think your story is going to really resonate today. Welcome, Nick.
@10:02 - nbrien
Good morning.
@10:03 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Thank you for having me. So glad to have you. So tell me before we dive into maybe that story.
Tell me a little bit about seven-year-old Nick.
@10:11 - nbrien
Did he want to be a bridge engineer? I think seven-year-old Nick did not know what a bridge engineer was, or what bridges were, I think, as a trend.
There are so many things that we take for granted, on mom and dad to get us around wherever we needed.
And just with the expectation that we're going to get from point A to point B, completely safe. I spent a lot of time playing GI Joe as any seven-year-old child.
@10:39 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
The eighties did.
@10:40 - nbrien
I spent a lot of time outside and tree forts and digging in mud piles and doing all the things that you'd expect kids at the eighties to be doing.
But bridges did not cross my mind as a seven-year-old.
@10:54 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
It wasn't really until high school.
@10:56 - nbrien
It started having appreciation of very large bridges. is trip to Toronto with the band going to Pantages Theatre. There were a lot of bridges in that area that I said, you know, this infrastructure is impressive and hard for civilization to exist.
@11:17 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah, so, Toronto made a big impression. It did? Yeah, so how did you get from high school, the band, to doing what you're doing today?
@11:29 - nbrien
I've had this conversation several times recently. My high school guidance counselor was former military and in high school, you know, slightly before the age of computers, but we had computers in the role, like DOS based floppy disk style.
You entered all the things that you were good at, get this print out of the things that my skills would be best suited for, we're in number one was nuclear engineering and my guidance counselor, who was a military guy, said nuclear engineering.
Hey, you could have great career in that and for you to be successful, but do you like to be on, would you like to be on a battling for a summary?
some right now. Well, I mean, interestingly, I did apply for the Naval Academy, but did not go there. But I chose that I did not want to be on a ship on the ocean for the majority of my life, or at least that's what I was scared into believing.
Yeah. So I was on that list. was, you know, within the top, top couple. And, you know, looking through colleges, there were a lot of options for civil engineering and that's what I chose.
And my experience with, you know, and the appreciation of infrastructure in the area that I grew up. You know, I grew up in what was called the Valley between the Schumung and Susquehanna River in a town called Athens in Bradford County.
So we had a lot of bridges. There were a lot of bridges in Pennsylvania. So it a very good state.
I'll say in general to have to. Cross a lot of bridges and have that appreciation once once it was pointed out to you like, hey, you pretty much need a bridge no matter where you're going in Pennsylvania.
Yeah. a daily basis, you probably can cross 15, 20, 30, 50 bridges. I don't even think about it.
@13:17 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Isn't that interesting how we can be surrounded by something? Like you said, when you were younger, we don't really think about it.
And even as an adult, you know, I pass over two, three bridges in a day and how many of us are thinking about, huh, I wonder if this bridge is safe.
Or who built this bridge? When are they fixing this bridge? I have a bridge near me and it's been out probably six to nine months.
I think it's going to be out another year. And you look at all that goes into fixing while redoing completely this bridge that's near me.
And it's an amazing feat of just both leadership and engineering. And I don't even know what because I'm not an engineer at all.
So I just tell me everything. What? has to go into what you do on a daily basis.
@14:04 - nbrien
What are some of the biggest things that you face? Well, the engineering process alone can be over the three years.
So typically the engineering process can be a lot longer than the actual replacement. And obviously getting from the start to the finish, there is a lot because there are a lot of moving pieces.
It's not just the bridge, for example, there's the environmental aspects of it. And environmental is a huge, huge arena of not just bugs and bunnies, but structures and, you know, prehistoric items that you might find in the area.
But you have to process or get through that environmental process. And then you start with a survey, you have to find out what's below your surface.
So as a leader on a project, you have to develop a schedule that's going to help guide, you when you do things when you need them to keep the project moving and flowing so you don't have big pauses, right?
need the survey before you can start the line of grade and you need the line of grade to be able to develop a profile so you can do a hydraulic analysis if it's over water and you need that analysis to size your opening for the structure.
You need the structure to tie back and it's one of those things where there's a circle and you kind of have to, you know, chase around that circle and make sure that everybody's on the same page and that that is a big part of say leadership in general is making sure everyone is on the same page.
@15:38 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Communication is a big part of that. Yeah, so you mentioned leadership mentioned communication. I'm guessing the way you approached a bridge in say years one, two, and three of your careers, not necessarily how you're approaching a project now a couple decades into your career.
Tell me what is some of the things that you know now as you are leading the company and still.
@16:00 - nbrien
projects, I'm guessing that you wish you knew them. Well, I would say, you know, from the project perspective, I think it's real easy for people to compartmentalize.
And I think danger of compartmentalizing is there are definitely things in your arena that will impact other arenas. So making sure I mentioned before making sure everyone's on the same page.
And one of the things I've talked about with with my team recently was having all task leaders be copied on a specific task.
So if we have a task for traffic control, for example, so traffic control, how does that impact the bridge if it's a detour, right?
shouldn't impact the bridge. But sometimes it can. So if I assign a task to the traffic control task leader, copying the other task leaders.
and as any issues come up. All of those task leaders then are copied on what those issues might be.
a good example of that would be if the detour is posted. So if it is a load posted road, then we have the conversation of, if the road is posted, how is the contractor that's going to do the work, get his equipment and materials there?
So then we have to start thinking about where else will this impact if we're going to have to do a pre and post-conditioned group survey?
Do we need to have a special provision for repairing the road when the contractor is done so he doesn't leave it in a worse condition than he found it?
@17:43 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Right. So it sounds like you really default to everyone knowing everything so that if one person is not thinking of something else, it's going to get caught.
Leadership is definitely a team game. I think leaders generally are only as good as the team that they surround themselves with, and that's critically important.
How have you been influencing the team? love that you said, the leader is really only as good as the team, because if you're far out, too far out ahead of your team, you're alone, and you can't build a bridge as one person.
You can't do much of anything as a leader as one person, so I love that you said that.
@18:29 - nbrien
Tell me ways that you're influencing inside your company to improve your teams. Influence inside the company. With my team specifically, we have regular meetings, regular meetings, and in those meetings, we talk about what is coming up?
What are the hot projects this month? So it helps the team develop priorities. On individual projects, if we have one issue or we find something you hear in our body checks or our body assurance, we typically send that out to the entire team saying, hey,
this issue happened and prevent it from happening again, these are details. the tough thing about engineering or anything in life, there are so many items that could occur.
So the intent isn't that everyone's going to know everything, that's just impossible. But the idea is putting that seed or the idea in somebody's head of, I vaguely recall something about this, let me do a search or let me ask somebody like, Hey, did we talk about this issue?
And it helps to, you know, I feel like people learn best by doing so just saying, Hey, this happened, doesn't really lead to them learning.
But it could plant that seed that they will ask a question next time. And then when they do it, they will say, Hey, this happened, this happened before, and we need to do it this
it's way. And then the critical piece of that is always because yeah, understanding why it needs to happen this way and not in a different way.
@20:10 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah, that sounds like a real distinction between a coaching leadership mentality and maybe a commanding control, like you just have to do it this way, because I said so, or because this is what the form says, or you know, that type of scripted method versus, Hey, this is a learning model or coaching you through it.
There's going to be mistakes and that's going to be okay, but we're all going to grow through these. That seems to be a real distinction that you've made inside.
@20:37 - nbrien
It is we had a culture meeting last week. And one of the things that I brought up was I'm not a fan of ever hearing.
do it this way because this is the way we've always done it. I don't ever want to hear this is the way we've always done it.
I think that's a terrible excuse. I want to hear this is the way we do it because this is the most efficient or most productive or the most economical.
cool way and sometimes those can be at odds and sometimes you have to pick one or the other and that would be my job as a leader but I don't want to hear like this is the way we thought there's got to be a reason why we do see things a certain way and it's got to be for you know one of those reasons safety you know as an opponent of our company but economy efficiency productivity you know a lot of those things you know which contractor we might be working for that there's reasons why and if as long as we have a why we can feel pretty good about why we made that decision yeah you have a reason for it so you mentioned culture meeting that's not a type of meeting I hear a lot about what what is a culture meeting well a few years ago we embarked on a plan to what our values are
versus what find those behaviors. you know, the, I'll say, traditional values without defining what those actions are, people will define for themselves what those actions would mean.
So myself and a group of people helped me at the company. And we came up with 24 fundamental habits.
And some of those things, they're, they're very, I'll say, I don't know, basic, not the right word, but simple.
Like when you hear them, you're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But without saying them out loud, I think saying them out loud, putting them in writing, we actually have a little pamphlet that we give to all employees and all new employees that I think having that information written down it it confirms our expectations of what we want out of our staff from everybody top of the
Um, focus on clients, right? Obvious, right? That's who pays our bills and we, sometimes we need to listen to what they want, not what we want to do, always respect others, right?
very straightforward and you would expect that, but that's not always the case. know, eos can get involved in certain companies and people have, you know, it, it, we're not asking everybody to be best friends, but we have to treat everyone with respect to, to have a company that's, that, that works and we're all going towards the same direction and we're efficient and we're safe and all of those things continuously improves and another one that always comes up, um, and that kind of goes back to, you know, why we're doing something and that can change over time.
@23:49 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
And that goes through continuous improvement, right, right.
@23:54 - nbrien
And that's, you know, some people, different people have different ideas and they say, why do we do this and we give that reason.
And they say, well, you did it this way. Would that be better because x, y, z? That's exactly what I'm talking about with.
I don't want to hear this voice, I've always done it. It may have been the way we've done it for this reason.
If there's a better way to do it, we should definitely investigate that.
@24:17 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Right. So it almost sounds like you're giving people permission to engage in the behaviors that you want to see that are going to make your company better.
@24:27 - nbrien
I don't, I understand what you're saying. I wouldn't necessarily classify as permission. I think these are, say, typical human traits.
Okay.
@24:40 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
But some are hard, right? Is telling somebody something they don't want to hear? That could be difficult, right?
@24:48 - nbrien
we may shy away from that. You're absolutely right. But I think, know, when you pull all of these together, you know, doing the right thing, being accountable.
Yeah. Yeah. No. No. No. in response if honor commitments. Sometimes if you have to call somebody out on not honor and commitment, it relates to doing the right thing.
@25:09 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
@25:09 - nbrien
So they're tiny. So I hear what you're saying. I think the idea obviously is to make everyone aware of you're right.
These are things that you would expect in your daily life and but saying this is what we expect in your work life as well.
@25:29 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Right, right. So if a leader wanted to follow your lead here and do something like this, what were some of the first steps that you took to go down this path?
@25:40 - nbrien
Well, I listened to a great informational session through Vistage. There's a lot of information that you can you can devote and I would say, you know, the habits aren't necessarily something that tied directly to your core values.
They can but it was recommended that they not. So I think, you know, for us at an engineering firm, where we do a lot of work in the field, there's a lot of work in the office, and we're in multiple states and countries.
think the idea is coming up with what is most important to your company's success, thinking about all of the ways that are needed.
And I'll say this is one area that I've grown into, you know, thinking back to when I first started my career, you know, if you would have told me, well, the people are the most important part of the company.
Back when I first joined, I was like, well, it didn't feel like that has been one of those people.
Now, you know, on the leadership side, I can definitely see, you know, we've been short-handed for a long time to hire an engineer who's been very challenging.
The people are the most important part of the company. So that's why culture, having good culture, is so critical.
we want the people, we want the right people, and we want people that are going to espouse these defining habits.
@27:07 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah, it's a differentiator then, when you have it, and it brings the right people in. Yeah, outstanding. So it's interesting you say it's individualized.
one company just couldn't pick up the behaviors that you've identified are important at Darwin and say, these are ours, right?
So it's going to be individualized to each company about what makes them successful. think that's a really interesting takeaway and important point that you made.
I'm curious, you talked a little bit about where you were, what you've learned. I asked this question a couple times, and I'm always really intrigued by the answer.
What is an undervalued skill that you think leaders should focus on?
@27:52 - nbrien
I had mentioned communication earlier, and I think the important part of that is understanding that not everybody communicates the same way.
If you can understand as a leader that the way you communicate is different than the way your 20-year-old intern communicates, the way your CEO might communicate, everyone, it's like a personality.
Communication itself is like a personality. Everyone has a different one. knowing that we all might communicate differently. I'm going tie this back to culture if you can assume positive intent.
I think that's going to be critical with communication because I think sometimes people can say things and it sounds differently.
I have a really good example of that. had our Tuesday meeting where we're talking about go-no-go on projects and a comment was made about down staff.
And another individual on that call took that to me downsize. And that was not the case at all. just so happened that we're going to have three individuals out in maternity at the same time or two in maternity and maybe one is being called up for military.
So literally, we're going to be down three individuals from a staffing perspective. But because of communication and because of our relationship, she just said, hey, can I talk to you about something?
And we had this discussion on people communicating differently. She felt more comfortable talking to me about it than the individual that said it, and that's fine.
But that goes to communication and relationships. But understanding that people talk or say things, like said, the individual that said it, the way he said it was perfectly clear to him that he was going to be downstaffed.
But the way that other people heard that was different. And then with her assuming positive intent, right? She asked for clarification before thinking, oh, the sky's falling, we're going to lay off, you know, 50 people and find a new job.
So it kind of averted a cast of people just came and asked for clarification. We got that. already had a community communication discussion of listen, like people might sound very clear to me.
@30:20 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
And I'm guilty of this, too.
@30:21 - nbrien
You know, I speak an engineer speak frequently in the visiting group meeting for getting that not everybody in that group is some glazed eyes, start showing up.
@30:31 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah. Well, I think it's great to remember that in your stories and excellent points, you know, the message is evaluated at the listener's ears and not at the speaker's mouth.
And we always have to be checking for that validation of, tell me what that just sounded like, or could you let me know how that came across because it sounds one way in my head, but it might sound a completely different way coming out of my mouth.
And I think that's a great, great story to sort out of why that. Well, so you mentioned maternity. They live and I worked for somebody who said babies are an excellent measure of a healthy culture that a healthy company or people feel comfortable to have families, right?
So I know you're a father, you've got a family. Tell me about that struggle or that success in balancing work, family, with kids, things like that.
@31:23 - nbrien
mean, that is something so relatable to many listeners. This is another discussion I had recently, I'm going use this as a plug for Darwin Engineering.
Darwin's the reason that I chose, like the flexibility I have at Darwin is the reason I chose coming here.
One of the places I interviewed was like, you work 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. with an hour lunch. like, wow, that's going to be really tough to make any child soccer games or soccer games or school with anything.
Two kids, travel soccer, year-round, swimming. In you name it, variety of clubs, I get to attend as much as I want.
I've got the flexibility here and I say this to my entire team. I don't want you to miss anything for your children or your family.
We have a really flexible PTO and this is another thing that came up with in our culture discussion that the flexibility, the reason I chose, because of the flexibility, I can either choose to take her.
week, I had something for my youngest daughter, took her to her event in the middle of the day and then I came back and I worked later and I still got the time I needed to get into the complete my work.
Same thing and then other times I could just take the time off. I have volunteered for every one of my children's school field trips.
chaperone a lot in the 16 years of my oldest daughter. But critically important to me to be there. Family is, know, number one for a lot of people.
Family is number one for me. think when I filled out the guide to this podcast, was like, what are your other hobbies?
@33:23 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Golf is another big hobby. again, I can look out and say, oh, you know, the sun is shining.
@33:30 - nbrien
I stay out. I better get out there, but better go ahead, get a tea time before it starts raining, and then still come back and finish my work later.
So it's, there's a lot of flexibility here. So to go back to your original question, how to balance all of that?
@33:47 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
It is challenging.
@33:49 - nbrien
Right. And that's, that's kind of separate from having a workplace that provides you flexibility to do all those things is very helpful.
Obviously, like on a project, having some type of loose schedule, prioritizing, I use my calendar extensively because there are a lot of things and you try not to forget anything and you need to plan and having reminders obviously are all helpful.
flexibility though is the flexibility to do those things and set your priority is really helpful.
@34:28 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Yeah, I was working with another leader and she can't get to everything and to your point I think it's great to get to as many things as possible and she shared this great conversation she had.
Her kids were a little bit younger than yours, maybe 7 and 10 or something and she said, look, mommy can't get to everything, give me the non-negotiables.
She engaged them in the conversation and said, tell me the things that you're okay if I'm not there but it gave me the ones that you want me to be there and then those were the non-negotiables even, know, so the president of her company
hair to whatever, she made it, you know? And so I just love the fact that like, I can't maybe I can't get to everything, but engage, you know, your kids in the conversation of, tell me what's important to you, because I might think it's the class party, and to you, it's the soccer game or the whatever, you know?
@35:18 - nbrien
So I just thought that was a really great sort of way to engage them in the conversation. I like that idea.
Yeah.
@35:25 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
have to steal that. Yeah. Well, that's why I shared it, because I was like, why? never thought of that.
It's really clever. I love that. That's excellent. Well, let me tell me this. We forget if it was Aristotle, Einstein said failures are greatest teacher.
What is your greatest mistake as a leader, and what did you learn from it?
@35:58 - nbrien
I think. You know, this is a really tough, tough question, but we went through that personality profile and made one of the individual in our group came out as perfectionists.
So that feels like every mistake is my biggest failure, but I think the biggest failure I've made was settling honestly.
If you settle on an individual that has red flags because you're desperate, you can end up doing more damage than positive.
I don't know if that's my biggest failure, but that ranks up there because it did cause some damage, both financially to the company, it caused some morale issues.
When not everybody, I had mentioned before, a
@37:00 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
the team, right?
@37:01 - nbrien
the other team members see that there is an individual that I don't say is getting away with anything because, you know, as a leader, you can't necessarily talk about HR issues if somebody's on a performance plan or not.
But that is a challenge. We're better off being underhanded and asking people to check in. I'll say the flip side of that is having been through that.
The other team members now know like, hey, I don't want to settle and have that situation again. If we can all pitch in a little bit until I can find, you know, candidate that is going to be a great addition.
Everybody's a lot more understanding.
@37:50 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Because they live through it, right?
@37:53 - nbrien
should build that together.
@37:55 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Unfortunately, it was by decision and everybody sucked at the consequences. Right, right. It's a But it is a lesson, I think, leaders almost have to learn the hard way.
You can tell a leader like, look, you know, it is probably better to go without than to go with wrong.
And that empty spot sometimes is so tempting to fill, even with somebody that's not right. And I think until you've lived through exactly what you're saying, they don't quite get it.
But what's our favorite saying, right, you encourage what you tolerate, or what you encourage, whichever way you want to say it.
So excellent lesson, I think, leaders. Well Nick, I think this has been as close to magic as I'm going to get today.
This is a fabulous conversation. I really appreciate your time and your insights. I think you shared some amazing things that really stuck out for our listeners.
I want to highlight just a couple at the end here, just to really highlight them. First, I really love what you had to say about compartmentalizing inside.
of your company and inside of your teams, you really, you know, you're talking about building a bridge but I think the lesson goes beyond that and the idea that you wanna default to, look just let everyone know, right?
Even if you don't think they need to know, just let everyone know. I think that default of communication really can prevent errors and prevent compartmentalization, like you said.
So I love that, that's number one. Number two is your communication. Though the lesson learned through communication is that one size doesn't fit all and that it's really a nuanced thing and the highlight I took really was that assuming a positive intent on the part of the listener is that critical piece for success.
So that 20 year old, that 50 year old, that 70 year old, right, they're all gonna communicate in different ways and you as that listener, you have to say, that's probably not what they meant.
Let me go and find out, right? So I just really love that. And lastly, you know, you have put in place, I don't think you gave yourself justice, just, you know, knowing a little bit more about what you've done at Dawood related to the culture work and the behaviors that you've defined and the impact that you've made there.
But you did give listeners some actions there about, look, the behaviors that exemplify your culture, and they are idiosyncratic to you.
You can't just pick up somebody else's playbook and think it's going to work at your company. So you have to really look inside and start there.
That's really what I want to highlight. I think you've offered leaders something to lead well in their companies, sharing what you have about how you live well and focusing on your kids is really awesome.
And learn well, you've really shared a lot about how you've grown as a leader across your years, both before Dawood and certainly with Dawood.
So I want to thank you for that. And just offer an opportunity, how can people follow up with you, learn more about Dawood.
@41:01 - nbrien
Sure, thanks Kirsten for having me. We are on the Internet, of course, www.dawood.net. I'm on LinkedIn. My e-mail is nbrien@dawood.net.
@41:11 - Kirsten Yurich (kirstenklyurich@gmail.com)
Feel free to reach out. Awesome. Thank you so much, Nick.
@41:14 - nbrien
It's been a pleasure. Thanks.
